I changed my blog title from homeschooling to education
I always feel like a responsible world citizen when I read an article from Al-Jazeera. I know whatever I read from there will come from a writer who has a different perspective on the world than the majority of writers who I read.
So I was happy when someone sent me an article from there about homeschooling. I was surprised that Al Jazeera would cover the topic. But then I saw they have an education section.
That was the nail in the coffin for me calling this section of my blog homeschooling. I decided to change it to education. Because in order for anyone to make sense of homeschooling they have think about education in a much more broad sense.
That change had to wait for a pause in the Ukrainian revolution because my web developer lives in the thick of it.
And the education moniker fits into the rest of my Penelope Trunk gestalt as well, because it’s nearly impossible to talk about careers and not talk about education. An effective career path is actually an effective learning path. Separate the two and your career will fail.
This article by Marc Prensky will be an interesting read for all parents and teachers but especially homeschooling parents. It makes a compelling case against the common core but from a different take than usual: Education isn’t preparing our children with the skills they need for success in the 21st century. Prensky makes a case for a brand new curriculum. It is one that many homeschoolers who lean more toward the unschooling do naturally. He also has an interesting take on technology and how education is an extension of our brains and that is a good thing.
But this is starting to feel like old news to me. Like, the only reason people have to keep writing stuff like this is because schools are in no position to act on it. Increasinlgly I’m seeing that school-reform advocates largely say the same thing , and schools largely ignore it.
So I am not sure there’s a point in saying things more clearly. We can’t change school. It’s a national babysitting service, and we could never afford to provide that in a more innovative way. We can barely afford to improve it as a semi-jail. So we have no room to do reform until we stop thinking of education as babysitting. And that’s not going to happen because parents would not be able to go to work. It’s just really such a fundamental problem.
Careers are about education because fulfilling work is about self-directed personal growth. Education should also be about self-directed persona growth, yet we are forced to learn how to educate ourselves in the workplace since we don’t have a chance to self-direct our personal growth in school.
Also, education and careers are heavily influenced by the shifting of our idea of what constitutes a family. The current system for both education and careers stems from an extreme devaluing of family in our society. Homeschooling is a moderate response to this extreme.
And it feels right that my web site has the topics of careers, education, courses and one-on-one coaching. Because we are all learning to make these big changes together.
“We can’t change school… [R]eform… [is] … not going to happen because parents would not be able to go to work.”
Fundamental problem, indeed. You have come to this conclusion relatively quickly in your journey. Good for you! It took me a few years. Your opportunity (responsibility?) to voice your opinions just turned up a notch. ;)
I always feel a little ‘prick’ in my arm whenever you bash traditional education. May I say ‘ouch!’
I would appreciate a fairer perspective on it as well as I’d like to see people share a fairer perspective on home education.
Every system set up by humans will have cracks and flaws- that’s our nature. Our nature also includes a willingness to try and make the systems we create better. As underfunded and neglected as many public school districts are I have personally met many teachers who actively work diligently to provide a competitive education and positive environment for the students in their care.
When my little one brings home the work I’ve seen she’s done and reports on her growing socializing skills (an introvert, by definition), I can not help but feel like the public school system she thrives in is very unlike the one you’ve experienced. But, I know, all experiences are different.
I’ve experienced the good and bad within the public school system myself. I like that there are alternatives (i.e. home school, montessori, etc.)- there should be. But again, within each of those systems there are bound to be flaws as I’ve witnessed in all three.
That said, please try to refrain from describing my child’s educational experience as a stone’s throw from a Dicken’s novel or Pink Floyd concept album. :-) Every experience is likely to be different.
Oh, and by the way, I have to call you out on event dropping (“web developer in Ukraine”). That’s like me mentioning the time I saw Chevy Chase eat an apple on set and the time my friend’s went to the Pink Floyd concert- in Berlin when the wall fell. I don’t recall them mentioning David Hasselhoff but from what I hear, he stole the show.
@ Chris M – read a different blog, this one clearly does not meet your needs.
@ Penelope – don’t change a thing. I appreciate your perspective.
@Frank
I respectfully disagree with Mrs. Trunk on a couple of points here and there and that’s simply because the experience I’ve had and have seen has never been as terrible as the one she describes. I’ve had my share of apathetic, bored and uninspired teachers. I’ve certainly questioned the validity of testing as a weeding out process rather than a tool for feedback and enhancement. I’ve even questioned the voracity (or lack of) in the material I’ve been offered. I clearly stated that I’m glad alternatives to traditional education are gaining ground because I believe different people have different educational needs and respond to different methods. These ideas have been supported by Mrs. Trunk in several other posts. Again, I just disagree that one system is worse than another.
As for my needs and a blog, that’s a fascinating assessment. I believe people can disagree on topics and still share valuable ideas. Disagreement is not the end of the world or the end of someone’s value to one another. Feel free to disagree. :-)
Yes, that’s a smug smirk but at least I didn’t stick my tongue out.
:-p
Oops! There it is.
The point is that it is incredibly rude to come to someone’s blog and try and tell them what they should and should not write about because it bothers you when she bashes public schools. You are more than free to disagree with her but that does not include instructing her on how to present the content of her arguments.
@Chris M
By every measurable educational and social objective your child’s traditional education is demonstrably inferior. It may hurt to read but it is none the less true. There might be reasons to continue with an inferior system. But no matter how many or how good the reasons may be, the reasons don’t make the education better, even if they make readers feel better.
@Queen
There isn’t much that disturbs or surprises me about people in this world anymore aside from people 100% certain of anything.
‘demonstrably inferior’, where’s your data? How many articles are you citing? What are the outliers on the data and how was the criteria for this research you’re citing formulated?
And then, if we’re demonstrating, are you arguing environment over innate ability? Can you replicate all the variables in any two student experiences to draw reliable, repeatable conclusions? Have any of the variables your basing your statement on changed over time?
I am humbled daily by what I don’t know. I can appreciate someone who has all the answers which I lack. As for social sciences comparing as a science in the likes of physics, part of me wants to chuckle at the thought but I don’t want to come off as ‘smug’. As for anyone standing on a good mass of social science data, I’d suggest they stand on very weak ground. As for anyone who swears by a handful of internet studies with no data, well, hmmm….
I think it’s too late to not sound smug- sorry. :-/
Chris M,
You asked in your earlier post, for Penelope to stop bashing the public school system and then when challenged, you stated that you can have a difference of opinion. Well, why can’t she?
If you want to get into the “natural order of things”, yes there can be a right and wrong way to do things. Public school can be inferior to homeschooling, no matter how much it hurts your feelings.
Your statements about how your child is thriving in public school has loads of implications that aren’t backed by data. What do you mean, thriving, going along with the status quo…being able to fill out worksheets on demand?
Like Penelope mentioned in another post which you may not have read, she could easily be normalizing her negative experiences in school.
I don’t think you telling Penelope to stop “bashing” public school is fair.
That doesn’t make you sound smug, it makes you sound insecure.
Chris, I agree with much of what you’re saying. I will advise that it’s best not to waste your time arguing with these people. If you say antying dissenting, they’ll call you a troll. They do think they know it all, lock, stock and barrel. It’s like a cult in here.
About the Ukraine thing…yeah, I found that distasteful, too, and was also wondering just how un-tech-savvy someone could possibly be that they couldn’t figure out how to change a title in what’s presumably a content-managed web system…
This blog is way too big to manage by hand. So when we change the titles of the blog we have to change the CSS (style sheet) or we would miss too many things. Also, naming conventions need to be consistent across servers because so many different people work on the servers for this site. So we can’t have seemingly random use of education and homeschool. It’s much different to manage a small blog and a large blog.
I take this time to point out that when something looks stupid – like needing developer to change a title – the best thing to assume you don’t know that much about it and ask questions.
And this is what my education blog is about. All of education looks completely broken to me. So I keep asking questions: Why do we do recess the way we do? Why do we teach reading the way we do? Why do we go to college? The better questions we ask the more we learn.
Penelope
Perhaps it’s over-complicated…like many things in our lives.
Hey Gretchen. Here is a post by a mom that read about unschooling and decided to keep her kiddo in school….for now. This might be up your alley. Just curious, have you noticed things in your kid’s class that could use some revamping? Have you been inspired at all by these homeschooling posts to see changes that could be made within your child’s class setting?
http://www.mrsmoneymustache.com/education-on-my-mind/
Thanks for the shout/link, Jessica. While of course I could name things that might perhaps be done “better” in my kid’s classroom, I’m not the type of person to needle away at every little thing I don’t find “perfect”…I’m a big enough person, too, to understand that there are many ways to go about different things and that my vision may not always be the best. I realize there are some people who are very successful in life and they never “settle” nothing is ever “good enough” and they are always striving. That’s not my style. If the school is good enough, it’s good enough. My child will be who she will be regardless. I’m not going to rack myself or disrupt her life chasing the notion of “her full potential”…her potential is whatever she becomes. All this striving…it’s not us.
well,
that woman pulled her kiddo from school after all.
@Chris M,
This blog is interesting because it is always polemical. It will be much less thought-provoking (and ultimately helpful to anyone) if the author moderates or constrains herself in any way. She’s demarcating the boundaries of the discussion. It helps us all know where we stand at the moment and illuminates for us whether or not we are standing there confidently.
Just because you feel that way doesn’t mean you have to express yourself that way, Chris. It shouldn’t be too hard for most mature adults to take a deep breath and get past their need to defend their choices in order to participate constructively in a conversation. Just think how tedious it is to meet people who do that at a party, and reflect a little, and surely you can stop the prick in your arm before it gets to the keyboard.
You could even participate constructively in a discussion about homeschooling, like this one, without being a homeschooler or relying on prejudice (e.g. Homeschoolers are unsocialized religious nuts) or defensive perseveration (e.g. Whatever you say my school is better). Just talk about how wonderful it is for you to share growth and learning with your child, and what you do for fun, and how you love to see them developing independence and ability. You do that part time and we do it full time so we have plenty in common already.
I’ll start. Does your child take music lessons? How’s that going?
@commentator
Thank you for asking. Yes, piano. I’m instructing her because she’s very close, I have a great love for the instrument and we have the time. We’re working on theory and the importance of simply enjoying the feeling of the keys on the fingers.
I find it funny/peculiar anyone might imagine I feel any measure of anger, resentment or defensiveness on this issue because I don’t whatsoever. I had attacked Queen Gorgo who was 100% certain public education was worthless, but that attack wasn’t a defense of public education so much as a response to why would anyone say something so ignorant. I’d be embarrassed to make a claim in the manner she did and if I had I’d at least provide some measure of reliable data to back it up. I don’t put much stock in social science and never feel 100% certain of anything.
I am not suggesting Penelope censor her writing in any way. If anything I would just ask (rhetorically) if public education is THAT bad or whether any system is THAT much better. I thought i was constructively participating by saying every system has strong and weak points but that seems to have been missed by everyone. I never actually defended public school other than to say my child’s experience has been positive. Results may vary.
To be honest, I feel weird even saying ‘public education’ because I can’t imagine that every school has the exact same structure, resources, focus or methods. The word ‘homeschooling’ carries the same issue of being one word that houses many different structures, resources, focus and methods. Without specifics the arguments are about vague generalities. Why label a general idea like public education as hopeless, worthless and even detrimental to children? Why does Penelope attack it so… defensively?
Chris, that’s a great response and so much better.
I agree with you that what Queen Gorgo said is not demonstrable. For one, she doesn’t know anything about your kid’s education. I, for one, believe that a minority of children get along swimmingly in school. Your child might be in that minority, in which case good for you and carry on.
I had an awful time in public school and so did my son. We are quite done with it, and we both enjoy homeschooling much more.
If I were to say something globally negative about the entirety of American public education I’d say that I think our system has now gone haywire from corporate takeover. It was bad enough when all we had to deal with was marginally literate teachers and Gradgrindesque administrators. Now it’s all hail the test. It seems like a terrible waste of time to me. Perhaps this trend hasn’t quite affected your local school; if not, count your blessings.
I also believe that if one were to draw a normal distribution of public education and a normal distribution of homeschooling, our curve would be at least a standard deviation better in accomplishment as well as enjoyment. But I am also certain that some children are suffering through homeschool and some children are thrilled with school. So, as you say, YMMV.
The odd thing, though, is that Queen Gorgo’s comment was a response to yours, not vice versa. So excusing your initial comment as a response to her is a bit impossible. I think that if you reflect on your initial comment you must agree that it was pretty snotty, what with the hee hees about Chevy Chase in Berlin. Really, civil war _can_ be truly inconvenient to some folks, even if it’s just an unpleasant headline to you.
It’s wonderful that you can share your love of piano with your child. I am jealous! I am not fortunate as far as musical ability – my father is a professional musician, and my mother wasn’t very encouraging in that way. I saw along quite poorly, but the compensation is that I find my son’s music theory classes fascinating. I am fortunate to be able to share different gifts and experiences – such as my enjoyment of math, writing, and languages – with my children, and I feel I’d have a lot less of this if my son were in school.
Looks like I set off a bit of a storm, however Chris M I think it is really one of your own making. Read what I said. I did not say public education was “100% worthless”. I said it was inferior. A VHS is inferior to a DVD but they both show movies. No need to misrepresent what I said, it was a strong enough statement without embellishment. I did not expect this statement to be controversial as it is generally agreed upon by society at large. This is why the education reform debate is presently being waged. The question is not “if” it needs fixing but what will work. If you need the data I will leave that to you and your googling finger and trust you will find it for yourself. A good start might be going back and reading some of Penelope’s earlier articles and follow the links provided. You might also try http://www.ed.gov. Good luck, may you find clarity.
Queen, I think you spoke inaccurately in your comment, and this inaccuracy is what riled up Chris in his later comments. You say:
“By every measurable educational and social objective your child’s traditional education is demonstrably inferior. ”
I believe, as you do, that traditional education, on average, is demonstrably inferior to homeschooling. However, not all school experiences and not all homeschooling experiences are uniform. Some school experiences may be better than some homeschool experiences. You don’t know Chris and don’t know how happy or unhappy his child’s school experience is, or whether switching to homeschooling would make things better. It’s probable that some homeschooled kids are right now getting a worse education than Chris’ kid. It’s possible that some kids in school are getting a better education than is my son (though not in the school we left!)
To continue with your analogy, you might actually have a VHS that is better than a DVD – if the VHS is of The Sound of Music and the DVD is of Gigli.
In such a freighted topic as homeschooling, it’s best to avoid hyperbole (or leave it to our host).
“A VHS is inferior to a DVD but they both show movies.”
” …you might actually have a VHS that is better than a DVD – if the VHS is of The Sound of Music and the DVD is of Gigli.”
These are great, highly entertaining comments! And very illustrative of the subjectiveness of the discussion of “education”…
Is a book “superior” to either VHS or DVD? Why? Why not? Are we judging content or delivery? You get it….. as I always say …it all depends. Just like education all depends. There are so many variables involved. I’m not going to comment anymore because it’s true, this is PT’s blog and she has an opinion and if I had a blog, I’d do the same damn thing, push my opinion out there with cherry picked links to back it up. That’s how it’s done. I get it. It’s our job as consumers of media to take what we want and use it, or let it go…I’m learning.
Funny, as I was posting the comment I told my husband someone would inevitably mention in some circumstance a VHS might be superior to a DVD. And this is the problem. In a community discussion we are not talking about the micro, we are discussing the macro. We do not need to parse our language because “in general” and “for the most part” are assumed before a general statement. No real person uses qualifiers for all statements in real life, that would be absurd. And as readers we know this, but choose to glom on to the exceptions rather than confront the general comment. (In General) Chris M’s child, and all students in the public education system (At This Time) are receiving an inferior (To What It Used To Be, As Well As Alternatives Currently Available, To Include, But Not Limited To, Unschooling, Homeschooling, Private School, Alternative School, Online School, etc.) education. (However Many Execptions To This Generlization May Be Available) Okay.
I was not being hyperbolic I was being descriptive with a general comment that “genuinely” agreed upon. I did not even bring up homeschooling. Education, the topic of the article, is a freighted topic that needs to be dealt with in a frank manner. The distraction of “not my kids school or experience” does nothing to address the issues of the overwhelming number of kids languishing in the side of the generalization that it is true for.
Does Penelope intend us to take her statements as hyperbole? That is not my read on her, but I could be wrong.
Thanks for the discussion. I have not taken them as attacks, even the original response from Chris M. I think this kind of dialogue is needed.
“Inferior…To What It Used To Be”
I absolutely think this is not true…and maybe part of the problem. Everyone remembers crazy shit from their elementary school days and how terrible it was and assumes it’s the same now. I know in my child’s school it’s absolutely not inferior to mine…it’s superior, by far. We live in a better area, teachers are more well-educated now…I could go on. The funny thing is, my elementary schooling (and high school…too…) was a joke…and I still managed to learn a lot and have a great life. My kid has so much better, so I’m not worried about her…
Queen, I think what one has to realize in a difficult discussion is that the things one can easily brush aside as being unimportant, minor acts of imprecision – like knowingly using a poor metaphor or generalizing in a sloppy fashion – don’t advance but rather derail the discussion.
Gretchen, I think you have made a germane point by noting that your child’s school is superior to yours was in part because you moved to a “better area.” This means you must be conscious that 90% of this country is in a “worse area” for public schools, including people like PT who live in very rural, limited areas, and people like me in very urban, divided, broken communities.
Public school in my city is a big poverty cake with a thin privilege frosting, because almost everybody who can either sends their kids to private schools (look, in my city, _taxi_drivers_ send their kids to private schools) or moves to a “better area.” Consequently, in my city there is about a school’s worth of families who do none of the above and homeschool, and it works great for us. We do lots of fun things together.
Is it possible that the improvement you are seeing, Gretchen, is not because our nation’s school system has improved but because your family’s circumstances have?
I went to school in a series of small, rural towns, including one in southern, rural Kentucky. I was confronted there with teachers who had to be ‘re-corrected,’ dictionary in hand, because they didn’t know the vocabulary I used on my essays in fifth grade. That school was absolute crap and an antagonistic waste of my time. My family’s situation is far improved since then; I live in a prosperous city with the finest educational institutions in the world. My son’s school, in the 21st century in Boston, was not appreciably better than mine was in rural Kentucky in the mid-seventies.
I agree that it is possible that if we had done the customary thing for people of our means, and tracked him through the “right” preschools into the “good” private schools, or moved to one of the rarefied suburbs where every child is above average, his experience would likely have been better, and perhaps so much better that he would have stayed in school.
That doesn’t change the fact that for us, and for many Americans, public school is just awful. Homeschooling is, for us, a convenient, economical, and fulfilling alternative, and I believe that as the corporate-driven changes currently plaguing our schools set in more deeply, it will become more popular.
It’s wonderful that your kid has it so much better. So does mine.
I agree, Commenter…and if I lived in a worse place, I might homsechool my kid. Good points. Not that where I grew up was that bad. It wasn’t. We’re in the top 5% now and growing up, well, I don’t even know what I was, but mom didn’t work, our vacations were all to neighboring states, in a car, parents didn’t pay for college, etc.
I wanted to apologize for getting things heated up, particularly by my tone when I initially replied to Queen G. I never meant to move the conversation in this direction. I strongly believe most parents try to do their best for their children with the resources they have. I’m just glad they have more options today than before.
To be honest, with the information and experience I have with child development, I often feel like society is playing darts with the lights out and using bullseye’s to support their platform. One child’s nightmare teacher is another’s guiding light, one child’s negative experience turned them to a life of crime but made the other promise themselves to do better. I’ve read studies that clearly explain how the brain ‘learns’ that were as useful as leading a horse to water when applying to a child. And what of the child prodigy’s? Who gets the credit? Again, bullseye but we don’t know why and can’t replicate the results. That lack of control in guiding my child’s education used to bother me, these days I don’t let it. Like anyone, I try my best with what I have and hope for the best. There’s no way I will ever claim what I’m doing is the only way to educate a child or is even the ‘right’ way- i’m not sure one right way exists.
I guess I’m just glad this conversation didn’t devolve into politics and gun control. If we were in the same room I’d openly apologize to Queen G for my rashness and offer her a mocha as a peace offering. Again, Queen, I apologize. No hard feelings. On a side note, I have to admit Gretchen’s views are very similar to mine.
Chris M, Gretchen and Commenter. Thank you all so much for the dialogue. I have no hard feelings, quite the opposite. I think this was a fruitful conversation handled pretty well for people who don’t all share the same conclusions. I am always better for interacting with others who don’t think in the same ways I do on every issue. Thank you. I am new to making comments on a blog, this was so much fun perhaps I will “see” you all in future posts!
Penelope, do you feel like your own public school education experience at new trier was a disservice to you and your career? Do you believe you would have fared better at home with the parents you describe as abusive? I often wonder if New Trier, with debate and AP courses etc, was so awful for you / where your negative public school experience stems from.
I’m sure there is some concise term to describe a false argument, but I don’t know it.
Just because Penelope chooses to provide an environment in which her children are not harmed and potentially can thrive does not mean that she can (could, should, would want to) magically change her past to choose to live w abusive parents homeschooling her.
There is no logic to presenting it as an if/then concept (nothing personal Katie – it’s more that I’m sick of that being a general part of the homeschooling debate I read in comments here).
It’s not even a debate. We all make the best descisions with the info we have at the time for the well being of our kids.
It’s weird to hear it framed as “well what about the abused stranger down the block, where would they be better off?” and “well what about my child’s amazing school?”
It’s irrelivent.
What makes sense for my family is what we do (which is unschool), if it ceases to work for the whole family, we reevaluate our options.
Actually Frank – the argument that she might have been better of homeschooled then at school was brought up at some point by P.T. herself – and it seems like Katie was asking for more information or reflection on this particular aspect.
Frank, Redrock is right on about my intention with my question. I was just asking Penelope to reflect on her own public school experience and how it has influenced her career. Nothing more.
I’m not suggesting we magically change the past anywhere in my question! Nor am I posing a question about all abused kids, or your (or anyone else’s) family choices.
I am merely wondering how Penelope’s personal public school experience influenced her thoughts about public education and her own career. I wonder if she thought she’d be better / worse off if she’d been homeschooled. I intended no judgement, debate, or argument in my question. It’s interesting to me that you interpreted it that way! Thank you redrock for helping me clarify.
and – btw, penelope, i think the new blog menu title (education vs. homeschooling) is great! much more visionary!
Katie, it may be useful to read her other posts, rather than just this one and make the assumption that she would have fared better in public school than at home. School is not meant to be a glorified orphanage for kids from abusive homes. I was from an abusive home and can defiantly say that school was not the answer or the relief from a bad home. It actually made it worse because I didn’t fit in as a star student because of my behavioral problems. The teachers don’t want to deal with problem kids because frankly they aren’t paid enough and they don’t have an incentive. In the five seconds they may get with you to address these problems, they certainly can not fix the problems that were created by abuse in the home.
I was thinking that school may not be the answer to kids’ parenting/home problems. It’s not set up to be.
Also, we’ve gone over the point that for disadvantaged kids school can provide a better life. But for kids who already are at an advantage because of good parenting/home environment then homeschooling is probably the much better choice because education is tailored to them.
I’m glad you changed it. Your blog relates to education in the whole sense and its advice for everyone, not just homeschoolers. People may come onto your site and see the words “homeschooling” and gather their preconceived notions. It seems more inviting this way.
“Education” is a more comprehensive category, more accurate description of these posts, and potentially bigger audience. Good change.
“We can’t change school” hits it on the head. Parents can deny it and keep utilizing schools because their options are constrained or they feel a loyalty to the system, or they can do something different, but facts are facts. Not even “school reformers” want to change school, they just want to make it suck -slightly- less for their targeted constituency.
I sense a hidden under current in your latest post. Have you changed your mind about homeschooling? Be honest. You always are, that’s why we like you. “Is there a disturbance in the force?”
Not sure why this post, changing the headline from homeschool to education, created such a weird reaction. But I do think it’s interesting to see new voices expressing themselves here.
One thing to think about: It is difficult to see something is wrong when you are living in “the matrix” that is public education. I was happily plugging away in my own existence with private school and when I started homeschooling I realized how it is vastly better… for us. But I would still be in “the matrix” if I hadn’t tried it.
Good luck to all. No hard feeling here.
I like the blog title change from ‘Homeschooling’ to ‘Education’ and I like the post. However, I think what’s funny is the second row underneath your name at the top of the page starts with ‘Why I Homeschool’ which links to the post by that name. Maybe you could change it to ‘Why I Don’t Conduct School at Home’ or something.
I think people who aren’t familiar with the process of self-directed learning are susceptible to forming a less than flattering opinion and image of the education process when it’s referred to as homeschooling. What may come immediately to mind is less resources and opportunity than school because of the inference of the name itself – school being replicated in the home – which it shouldn’t and usually isn’t the case. And the name change to ‘Education’ is more inclusive as mh mentioned above and a big reason why we are all here.