Organized religion is too much like school

Last month, during Yom Kippur, I took the kids to synogogue. Usually  we just do our Jewish stuff at our house. My kids are exposed to so few Jews in their life that I am able to celebrate Jewish holidays on my own calendar, on my own time, in my own ways.

But then I started thinking I need to get the kids to some stuff that looks like a Jewish community to make sure they really feel Jewish, because I have read so many articles about how people who are spiritual get the same types of benefits as people who are healthy and people who have friends.  Also, meaning and purpose in life do not generally come from the work we do or the children we raise, but rather, from the spirituality we cultivate.

So I got my sons all dressed up and we went to synagogue and it was really boring. I told myself that Ashtanga yoga is also boring, and so is running long distances, but that both force you to go inside yourself to deal with the boringness and quietness.

Then I remembered that there were children’s services because really, synagogue is too boring for kids.

We went down to the basement to look at the classrooms where the kids were, and I couldn’t believe it but there were no boys. Only girls. The classrooms were full of girls. My son asked, “Where’s the room for boys?” and I realized there was no room. They were just sort of missing.

Boys are missing everywhere.

They are missing in college: The New York Times reports that second-tier colleges (read: not Ivy League) are having a hard time keeping 50% of the class male, and girls don’t want to go to a school that isn’t 50% male. And second-tier schools who do have an ability to enroll qualified men, flaunt it as a big differentiator.

They are missing in gifted programs: School is set up for girls. Girls read faster than boys, sit still better than boys, and are ahead of boys in math until middle school. While the girls are testing high, we  are medicating young boys in order to keep them in school.

They are missing in religious institutions. I’m shocked but I guess it’s true. And it makes sense. If you set up spirituality to be something that you learn in a classroom, sitting down and listening, it’s going to resonate with boys about as much as long division.

Millenials say they want to be spiritual but they are increasingly unimpressed with organized religion as a path to spirituality. I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing or even if we need to judge it, but I’m sure that it’s a sign that organized religion fails kids in the same way that school fails them: it’s about propping up age-old institutions instead of overhauling the paths we give people to the age-old knowledge.

I wonder what the is the religious version of unschooling?


48 replies
  1. Jennifa
    Jennifa says:

    While I have not been to church in decades, I have noticed boys falling behind in general. The only thing I have come up with is that boys seem to be petrified of being seen as gay.

    Therefore any endeavor that could put them anywhere near getting intouch with their feelings or otherwise expressing themselves is seen as gay and they won’t get any where near it.

  2. karelys
    karelys says:

    I am so happy to be part of this discussion. I’ve mentioned before how learning about homeschooling helped me break away from the tied to organized religion.

    And yes, there is the unschooling version of spirituality. It’s all over the internet. There is a place created by a dude who calls himself Naked Pastor and he has a really interesting website. Essentially there’s no church (because if you are a christian you know that you are the church) just a web community were people of like minds get together and …. hang out….just be part of a community.

    For me, unschooled spirituality has been very much just living. Just going about testing boundaries and testing theories and all that. Which I like best. Is very freeing. Very confusing too. But I can’t go back to what I was before.

  3. MC
    MC says:

    I’ve never seen a church that had no boys in it. Young men, sure, but whether kids go is pretty much a function of their parents. Churches lose young men because they focus ONLY on feelings rather than honor, right and wrong, etc. But no young boys? That seems like more of a problem for this synagogue, not in general.

  4. Carmen
    Carmen says:

    They say the body is the temple. The thing is exercise, healthy food and healthy habits don’t really work as well if the mind and soul aren’t connected too.

    You need meaning and purpose to create the desire to live, to be your reason for living. We can only give that to ourselves.

    I’ve always found running spiritual too because you can contemplate and commune with nature if you’re outside, or with other people at the gym. Yoga too, but I think this can be accomplished at home too, alone, writing.

    Contemplation and communion (sharing) with nature or people or just the self.

  5. Caroline
    Caroline says:

    This is something I often think about as I do not enjoy attending church as much as the spiritual comfort it brings and the social connections within. When times get tough it is nice to have the support of the members and it feels good to help people in times of need.

    As for boys. I am puzzled. I agree that there is a significant cultural problem concerning boys in our society. However, when my daughter was in public school 5 years ago, her entire grade for the 4 years she attended (80 or so kids) was ~70% boys. This was the only grade in the school (and city) with this disproportion. It was very odd and frustrating.

  6. Jim
    Jim says:

    The dwindling number of men in church has been a huge problem for 20 years. For whatever reason church has become less male-friendly. A book about it that I haven’t read, but if there’s a book about it you know this has been a problem for a while:

    Church is about group stuff and men are about adventure. The adventure is gone in the church. Faith is supposed to be an adventurous journey — actively in the world serving and doing to make things better. But few churches do that now. It’s about the programs they offer, and the quality of the worship service, and about prayer chains and accountability groups and study groups.

    Meh. Feh.

  7. Tony
    Tony says:

    LOL I teach a class at my church that is all boys and sometimes one or two girls.. At least in my area it tends to be cyclical. Sometimes we have more girls than boys (like some of our other classes) but in my case with the parents who are coming to the church we have all boys.
    I actually enjoy teaching the class like that. Having all boys means we can talk about Star Wars, comic books, and video games where I would to temper that stuff back to keep the girls interested. Plus it doesn’t make it as awkward when questions like “What is a concubine?” comes up.

      • Tony
        Tony says:

        Marriage (or lack there of in this case) and sex is viewed differently by boys and girls even at the pre high school age. We all agree it was a bad practice but why it was a bad practice will be view differently by boys and girls. For the boys that means pointing out that guys who practiced this had many more problems long term that it was worth (Abraham and Hagar, Jacob and his wives etc) . It was a bad practice for the women because they were pretty much second class citizens in their own households. Just having boys means I can be more direct while with both sexes I have to take time to explain both sides of the issue without the conversation de-evolving as it can easily with both jr high boys and girls in the same room.

  8. Shari
    Shari says:

    For kids or adults, I’d say time spent in nature, especially unstructured, is “religious unschooling” – basically time to be spiritual. Unfortunately most people, big and little, don’t get enough of that these days either.

  9. Lindsay
    Lindsay says:

    Well, the first step is to figure out whether it was a quirk of your synagogue or if it really is a generalized problem. Did you try asking someone there?

    I can’t remember where I read (though it was somewhere credible), that girls define themselves by what girls do, and boys define themselves by not doing what girls do. Which is a major problem obviously. As girls get more options for things to be interested in, boys get less…it’s a bullshit zero sum competition for the kids, apparently. And it’s internalized misogyny on the boys’ part. Why do they find everything associated with girls so odious? It’s not an attitude that’s serving them. (Re commenter above about terrified of being gay – I think that is part of the same phenemenon. Gay = girly, therefore bad. More bullshit logic).

    • Paxton
      Paxton says:

      Lindsay, you actually believe that all the boys in the world are misogynist? That is absurd beyond absurdity. When I was a boy girls sometimes called me neener-neener-poopy-head, does that make all girls misandrist?

      You ever consider that maybe the boys at that age don’t want to play with girls, no matter how much their care-takers enforce “equality” and “everybody is the same” in school and play?

      I like watching the NBA but I have not interest in watching the I a misogynist too?

      • Jennifa
        Jennifa says:

        I don’t think Lindsay implied all boys are mysoginist (I can’t even spell it).

        But it is a thing, recognized by popular culture, and it is bad for boys. I provide a link: Note the joke by Aziz Ansari, the reason it is so funny, is because everyone knows a young man afraid of looking gay. And it is sad for them really, because it limits their lives.

        And trust me, Comedy Central Roasts are not some outpost of a minority (meant as a number, not a description of the viewers) of the viewing public, it is most people, but maybe not most people who read this blog.

    • Jennifa
      Jennifa says:

      Thanks, you described the phenomenom better than I. And I heartily agree. I have been amazed at what my nephews will deny themselves in order to not be seen as “girly”.

  10. Daven
    Daven says:

    Our smallish liberal church is packed with boys. Among the teenagers, there are a lot of girls (and a few boys), because that’s who got born during those years. But they’re all graduating now, or too busy with dances and concerts and homework to come to church. Among the elementary kids now, it’s almost all boys, because that’s who happened to get born. Some Sundays we have no girls at all in church. It’s just how the boomlets happened to go.

    We unschool, so church is the most “organized” thing we do. Once a week, half an hour for handbell practice, half an hour for the boys to run around and play Star Wars scenes or throw things at each other or look at each other’s tablet games (while the choir rehearses before church), half an hour for the kids to sit with parents in church, half an hour for the kids to leave for Sunday school while the parents stay for the quiet part (sermon, prayers), then mingling after while the boys play “Han shot first” up by the pulpit, or chase around the sanctuary, then go home. It’s a good routine, as routines go.

  11. Katie
    Katie says:

    If you are an adult in a Jewish community, it is easy to get your needs met with all the Jewish education classes. We are excellent at questioning and challenging, so classes and seminars at the local JCC are very engaging. For the young children, excellent programs. For school-age kids, it is a bit of a tougher search. I’m not a fan of the laxity of reform Hebrew school, and I’ve heard even the Orthodox have been dumbing it down in recent years (rigorous Hebrew instruction at day schools isn’t that rigorous anymore because parents were upset that some kids felt bad for not understanding much at first).

  12. Commenter
    Commenter says:

    Where are the boys? We’re pretty busy all week long, although organized religion is not part of our week, so I can’t speak to that, but I notice gender differences at different activities.

    I know that girls outnumber boys at conservatory prep. Maybe there are as many boys studying music as girls somewhere, but not in my son’s solfege class. I think 4 out of 11 in the class are boys (and 4 out of 11 are not Asian, though not the same 4). We find that also in workshops – my son is sometimes the only child there who isn’t an Asian girl. So I expect that overall at conservatory prep boys are missing.

    We go to art classes at the museum most Fridays. There are classes for age groups from 3 up to teens, and they all seem to be about 50/50 for gender. Boys aren’t missing there.

    But these are homeschooled boys, so they probably don’t represent the general population. (I have to say that one of the benefits of homeschooling is that my son doesn’t associate with the kind of boys who would say something is “gay” or that they won’t do something because girls like it. That’s the kind of socialization we don’t miss one bit. I was explaining to my son about the difference between Boston Latin and Roxbury Latin and the fact the latter is an all-boy’s school and he didn’t like the idea at all. He said he thinks girls bring balance to the world.)

    I feel pretty sure I can explain where all the boys are, though: organized sports. I don’t think I know many boys who don’t participate in at least one organized sport, and Saturday mornings are a prime time for them (my son has to skip in order to go to the conservatory). In the after-school hours organized sports my son does (with mostly schooled children), boys outnumber girls three to one (in the sports we do with homeschooled kids during school hours, it’s 50/50).

    I can think of three factors contributing to the exponential growth of organized sports for children (mostly boys): the end of public school sports / recess; the death of free play with neighbor kids; and the hopes of parents that their kids will get a scholarship. So boys play more in organized sports than outside them these days, and the time spots when it’s possible to get enough kids are after school hours and Saturdays.

    So here’s your answer: the boys you’re not seeing at the synagogue are probably all out on the soccer field.

    • Penelope Trunk
      Penelope Trunk says:

      I like this comment so much. It’s so obvious yet I’ve never thought about all the implications. For example, my son doesn’t play organized sports but has to schedule play dates around tons of sports programs that his friends are in. There must be tons more implications. Your comment gets me thinking… thank you.


  13. jen
    jen says:

    Hey PT – I’m only here b/c I’ve been trying to figure out subdomains and I love how you’ve done them.. I usually read your blog portion as I’m not a homeschooler, but this subject struck me and I had to comment. We go to mass every Sunday, where my kids squirm and color and beg to leave early. Your blog (I am not making this up!) inspired me to do do home Sunday school, because I want to make sure my kids learn the things about God that it took me too long to learn. Although I attend the Catholic church now, my father was a Protestant minister. I had a lot of exposure to what church did not do well or right and how the lessons and teachings failed me. So, I use all that to inform teaching my kids. I teach from the Old and New Testament, We did the Armor of God recently and cut out the armor from felt. The kids are big w/ hands-on crafts and I keep it really simple. I try to make sure they get just one main idea that they can carry with them all their life. And, these lessons work so well for all three of my kids — ages 16, 6 and 8. Biblical teachings are not hard to understand and I don’t have to tweak them to fit my kids of different ages. I have probably missed my calling, actually, but church leaves so many people cold and bored, I didn’t want to spend my life fighting that. Oh, well. I love your stories about Jewish life. Also, I think there is a Biblical basis for homeschooling kids in matters of faith. I’ll try to find it. By the way, today on The Takeaway, which airs on NPR stations in Oklahoma, they’re talking about Gen Y and faith. I actually called in and left a comment, but who knows if they’ll use it. xoxo

  14. Becky Castle Miller
    Becky Castle Miller says:

    I think family style community is the unschooling of religion. Just like family living is the unschooling of school.

    Both in Rhode Island and now in the Netherlands, my husband and I and our kids have been involved in small community groups of Christians who meet together weekly at someone’s house for dinner, discussion of faith topics, community support of each other, and praying for each other. Adults and kids of both genders are actively involved. Our current group has some families and some single men and single women of various ages.

    Our kids – boys and girls – see us living out faith together in community and really being there to help each other with life stuff, like caring for each other when someone is sick or needs help.

  15. christy
    christy says:

    Penelope, you asked what is the homeschooling version of spirituality/religion. I offer to you the idea of Quakers (Society of Friends). The classic “silent meeting” version of Quakerism is called an “unprogrammed meeting” (which just means that no one is in charge, there is no order of service, etc.). “Meeting” is the Quaker word for “congregation”.

    The sitting in community in silence, seeking the Presence of the spirit is really pretty cool, low-burden of entry, and open and accepting to pretty much all approaches to spirituality.

    Our meeting, albeit a small meeting, has quite a few boys in it. Most interesting to me is the level of active engagement I see in the teenage boys. My past experience has indicated that teenage boys step away from any sort of organized religion. These boys in our Meeting are more genuinely engaged that I ever would have expected.

  16. Lisa
    Lisa says:

    Spirituality isnt about going to a religious buiding. Not that there arent reasons to go, but community and spirituality aren’t the same.

  17. GenerationXpert
    GenerationXpert says:

    I love this post, because I’m going through the same thing. I’m Catholic – and Mass is really boring. And at my church, the choir is made up of really old ladies who are terrible singers. I like to sing, but they kind of ruin it for me. The only thing I really like to do at church – sing – is ruined by the old ladies. And my kids just struggle to sit through it.

    So we end up not going. And MY mom gives me a hard time.

    I started following the Pope on Facebook recently. And when I’m on Facebook, I’ll see his posts. And he posts about living a more spiritual life. And about not being an asshole (my word, not his).

    So I think to myself – I’m in touch with this spiritual leader for a little bit every day. And I’m getting good stuff that gives me some peace and helps me be a better person. (I know a lot of people hate Catholics, but the Pope really does post stuff that is applicable to anyone. It’s not crazy polarizing stuff.) But that doesn’t “count” in organized religion, right? If I’m not sitting in church every week listening to the cat choir (that’s what they sound like), I’m not doing it right.

    So, Penelope, yes, this is the religious version of unschooling.

  18. YesMyKidsAreSocialized
    YesMyKidsAreSocialized says:

    In Los Angeles there are many boys at synagogue as well as private Jewish schools. I don’t see them missing there. That is strange that even during Yom Kippur there were no boys when you went.

    Gen Y is another lost or silent generation and I don’t think the decisions they make for themselves will translate beyond them. I think Gen Z will be deeply spiritual, whether that means organized religion I am unsure but all the kids I meet from Gen Z and even the generation after that seem deeply spiritual.

    • Katie
      Katie says:

      I see it as an anomaly too. I have been a member of several synagogues in Indiana, Brazil, and South Florida, and I’ve never seen a skewed gender ratio for the children or adults. Penelope might have jumped the gun on this generalization, and a phone call to the rabbi might have provided insight.

  19. Nicole
    Nicole says:

    Since Judaism is Matriarchal, could it be that maybe religion is just more important in families with only girls?

  20. Ru
    Ru says:

    hi penelope, i was recommended this book by someone who is part of Soka Gakkai International organization. It’s kind of like buddhism type of religion, but there is no buddha to put an incense for. They broke off that branch of buddhism.

    If you can get a copy of this book somewhere, read it for fun. I thought this one way that religion does not become too-routine like to enjoy for a twenty-something. And people doesn’t seem to use this religious organization for dating service. Several guys I knew became a Christian, just to meet girls.

  21. Christopher Chantrill
    Christopher Chantrill says:

    I recommend “The Faith Instinct” by NYT science editor Nicholas Wade.

    Divine Justice: The trial and judgement of malefactors is really problematic for most societies because nobody wants to do the dirty work of policing and punishment. But God will willingly do it for free. Only believe.

    Community: There is something about rhythmic drumming and dancing that promotes community. And many ancient religions had festivals where enmities could be symbolically rehearsed and purged.

  22. Nowgirl
    Nowgirl says:

    You asked about the equivalent of unschooling for religion. I’m not religious but I’m interested in institutions collapsing/re-forming, and Rob Bell is the closest thing I can think of (check “Beliefs” on the Wikipedia page.)

    He seems to be the go-to speaker for the unchurched movement.

  23. sylvia
    sylvia says:

    My sons and daughter (now grown) liked learning Hebrew, but hated everything else about religious school. I think this was due to not having any choice in the topics discussed (sound familiar?!). The curriculum was so didactic and intellectualized. Even the teen group which was supposed to be for fun and socializing always included a boring, intellectualized discussion. Jewish Sunday school curriculum seems afraid to get into discussions about the nature of God and spirituality which kids might find more relevant. At least, that’s what I wanted to talk about when I was young — but never had an opportunity to do.

    My husband and I have often noted that churches do a better job of engaging kids than synagogues. I wonder if they manage to make curriculum/activities more relevant. (I do know of one church that gives kids candy for learning Bible verses!)

    For a refreshing take on Jewish spirituality check out:

  24. Lavonne
    Lavonne says:

    I am sure the experience is different amongst various churches and synagogues. I grew up in a denomination that was so inflexible, I could never make sense of it in the long-haul of life. My husband and 3 boys now attend an Anglican Church and we all find it to be amazing! All senses are engaged and for all age groups. Faith formation begins at birth and is encouraged alongside worship and service through sacred and celebratory milestones of life in this tradition. We do memorize creeds and prayers, but we engage in lively discussions and enjoy worship that is not completely detached from our culture. Speaking of culture, many nationalities of people are a part of this Anglican congregation in America. It is quite beautiful. I am weighing in here because I see the positive elements of growth that come with involvement in a good congregation.

  25. Bryce
    Bryce says:

    I’m surprised no one has mentioned Islam…it’s one religion that for better or worse, appeals to males.

    • Crimson Wife
      Crimson Wife says:

      That and the LDS church. It seems the more demanding and strict the faith, the more it appeals to men. I see a far more even gender balance when we attend the Traditional Latin Mass than at the typical Catholic Mass. I’ve never been to an ultra-Orthodox synagogue, but I’d be curious to see if they have a more even gender ratio than at the typical Reform synagogue.

      • avant garde designer
        avant garde designer says:

        Wow. So the churches where men have all the power and women have none…those attract men. And the churches where women are treated equally, or, shall even even go so far as saying, with dignity and respect…those do not attract men. Is there a message here?

  26. Samantha
    Samantha says:

    Religion unschooled sounds like what you are doing already. I think inviting other families or people of interest, jewish or not, to your shabbat or other special days would be an excellent way to take it to the next level. Sounds like fun wish we lived near enough to take advantage of the idea.

  27. Zachary Gelason
    Zachary Gelason says:

    This post was way to overarching for my taste. The idea that you can even begin to make generalizations about “organized religion” is a bit absurd. The range in religious styles and approaches is too broad for this topic to even be useful.

    I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and from the sounds of this article and the comments, we must be debunking the trend since there is no shortage of boys in our congregations. Perhaps one of the things that make us unique is that starting at age 12 the youth in our church are expected to take on the responsibility of leading themselves (leaders are chosen from the youth and they are highly involved in determining study topics and formats). The more these youth are engaged in leading themselves as peers then the more committed and determined they become – they are actually needed. Why show up to a church where you are not needed.

    • jrw
      jrw says:

      “I agree that this post is way too overarching”, which I think is pretty normal for Penelope’s blog. I don’t mind in the least though because of the quality of discussion that follows.

      Also, I am LDS too and although I agree that our youth program has some impressive ways to empower tweens and teens (especially the new changes in how they basically teach their own 2nd and 3rd hours of church to each other and the teacher), I would argue that our youngest children (especially the 3-8 year olds) are still getting the short end of the stick. It’s been my observation that they are often being pelted by a chorus of “be reverent!” for the better part of our three hours of services, when what I think they should be showered with is the teaching that reverence has little to do with being quiet and much to do with being close to God. Time spent at church should be a reminder to those children that they are always close to God, that even when they do wrong, they are incapable of leaving His love.

      Luckily, I also believe my religion is a means to an end, not the reason for life. So I bring my children anyway and I teach them that when their teachers get frustrated with them for acting like children this is their chance to show those teachers that God loves them too. “Hug your teacher and tell her you forgive her for being mean to you.”

      I have opted out of asking my children to spend 1/3 of the most vulnerable time in their life in an institution that largely misunderstands the beauty in their natural tendencies, but I have been very careful in making the decision to still take them to the church that teaches me this:

      “Being mistreated is the most important condition of mortality, for eternity depends on how we view those who mistreat us.”

      This would be impossible though if I couldn’t tell them that organized religion has problems. We go despite the problems, not because our church is free of them. And that’s the lesson I want them to learn about all relationships; we love because of the good in others, not because there is no bad in them.

  28. Josue
    Josue says:

    Penelope, you asked “I wonder what the is the religious version of unschooling?”

    It’s called parenting! You have said this in other posts — parents need to first and foremost live according to their values, and model their faith to their children. Then, kids will naturally imitate (early years), ask questions about, and adopt those values as their own (later years).

    It also helps if you don’t put your kids in a public school environment where every aspect of their faith is attacked, questioned and ridiculed.

    • avant garde designer
      avant garde designer says:

      Josue, your statement about public schools is far too conjectural. I attended parochial elementary and high schools and was brainwashed to believe the same thing. I was also led to believe that public education was subpar to mine. When I got to college, I really was put in my place. Not only were there well-educated and intelligent public school graduates but there were also many who were openly strong in their religious faiths.

      I’m all for homeschooling. But I think we’re doing our kids a huge disservice by teaching them how horrible public schools are and how poorly educated are those students who attend them. Your kids may be just as surprised as I was when they learn differently.

  29. tim
    tim says:


    I am 63 years old. My wife Judy and I were married later in life. I was 43 and she was 37. We have three children that we have homeshcooled from the start. Our children are now 13, 16, and 17. I have noticed in homeschool circles that few men are active. I have also noticed that in Christian circles few men are active.

    Once we discovered how natural learning works, we began to look at the various churches we had attended from the perspective of what might be called natural Christianity as opposed to what might be called scripted or denominational Christianity.

    In regard to education I have found that the admonition found in Deuteronomy to be sufficient;

    Deuteronomy 6:6-7 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

    I was led to look at our Christian life and consider if something similar could be achieved to find a way for our family to live a deeper, richer, and fuller Christian life that was not happening with the programs, events, activities, and sermons of most churches.

    We have house churched for over ten years. However, since we live in a rural area of South Dakota, it is usually just our family on Sundays. We do make a point of trying to cultivate relationships with other Christian families, but most people today are drawn toward organizational systems for both school and church.

    I think churches and schools are set up to process people as components. Men and boys prefer a more active role than presenting themselves as a passive component to be processed.

    If anyone has an interest in this subject, you can contact me at

  30. Helena
    Helena says:

    PT, you said that you took them to church which is how many children get there- with their mothers. Fathers and male role models are often missing from the main congregation. My step-father stopped going to church at a young age because he preferred to be with his older brothers and father, especially during hunting season.

    I do hear what you are saying about boys though. I have 2 daughters that I never had a hard time with as far as going to church. My son, however, whines nearly every week. And if my husband stays home, he does too, and sometimes the girls choose to as well.

    I agree with many of the other commenters…unchurch is really just living your faith, which we should all be doing whether we attend a weekly congregation or not.

  31. avant garde designer
    avant garde designer says:

    Interesting. My Christian denomination is hung up on the roles of men and women, with the requirement of women’s submission to men. So that means no female pastors, no female heads of committees, and no females in any way leading men. The irony of this is that on any given Sunday, there are more families with just a mother present than those with both parents. We also can’t get men to serve on committees or take a leadership role. As you can imagine, there is so much that does not get done.

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